What Happens When People Keep Being Polite, and Start Getting Real
"Armchair Expert" and the best part about it: the Experts
Alex writes about the podcast that fuses late-night talk with therapy
“Now, not only were your parents in it [the movie business] but also you were going to Notre Dame [private high school in Sherman Oaks, Calif.], so your peers are also, like, in it.”
I’m re-listening to “Armchair Expert” Episode 309, an interview with Rachel Bilson from March 2021, because I find this particular soundbite (15:36) especially memorable.
“Yeah, Kirsten Dunst was there with me, and she was already working—already kissed Brad Pitt.”
To get this part, you need to know that Brad Pitt is like the sun to them. They, co-hosts Dax Shepard and Monica Padman, have been flirting with him over the air for years (without reciprocation). When his name comes up here, you can practically hear Dax’s goosebumps forming.
“Wait, did they kiss in that movie!”
“Yeah! She was like 11!”
[Dax screams]
The equivalent of a surprise album/song/product drop by your favorite musician/brand, these are the times of greatest payoff for being an avid follower (or, to borrow their term, “armcherry”) of the pod.
Same in pod as in life, you adopt a bit of the personality of the people you surround yourself with—so, something as trivial (and not at all new) as adult Brad Pitt kissing preteen Kirsten Dunst in the movie “Interview with the Vampire” (1994) because extremely exciting in the moment it’s said.
If you don’t hang with Dax and Monica as much, I wouldn’t expect you to feel any way about it—except maybe icky.
It’s also assurance that you’ve picked the right episode of a podcast that posts, at least, twice a week and has hundreds of episodes to this point. Each episode clocks in around 90 minutes (sometimes more), so selecting the right one to listen to, when many of us have so much pressure on our time already, is paramount.
Since premiering in 2018, AE has been a twice-a-week interview show featuring celebrities (Tuesdays) and experts (Thursdays). It’s late-night talk meets therapy; in a recent episode, Ben Stiller is praised senselessly for his latest work but doesn’t get away without discussing the ways in which he deals with disappointment, for example.
AE does this really well, fusing these two very different tones into something that sounds like a free-flowing, organic conversation with its guest.
You’ll have your pick in all likelihood of an episode featuring one of your top five favorite celebs, which isn’t a bad way to start in on the show. Though famous people aren’t always more interesting, you’re going to like the Amy Poehler episode if you like Amy Poehler. (Dax and Monica love Amy, so, listening to her episode, you feel a little bit like you’re in a group hang.)
But I’ve found the most memorable celebrity interviews to be the ones I wasn’t expecting it from. Molly Shannon speaking about, as a child, being in the car accident that her mother was killed in is something I will not forget.
This is exactly the kind of dialogue AE wants to have (to the extreme), promising in its bio to be obsessed with the “messiness of being human,” to explore how a person navigates life’s hurdles to end up where they are. Dax is especially equipped to have these conversations, but Monica, too. Both bring their personal lives into these conversations without reservation, and that’s extremely important.
Guests check their ego at the door.
I’d also recommend these recent highlights: Laura Linney, Max Greenfield, Connie Britton, and Bradley Cooper. If you have time, all two hours of Shaun White.
That said, there are just as many of these celebs who are making the rounds. If you’re double-dipping with AE and shows like it, or just know someone’s story really well, you’re sure to have a little déjà vu sometime. (I promise that wasn’t meant to be another Olivia Rodrigo reference! This is a blog about podcasts now.)
I find less of that on Thursdays, during AE’s “Experts on Expert” episodes, which is when I think they’re doing their best work.
These interviews are more explorational and informative, compared to what can sometimes be a fact-check of your Wikipedia page and a walk down memory lane. It was virtually appointment listening when Dr. Sanjay Gupta appeared on the show three times between April 2019 and January 2021—unheard of—to talk about You Know What.
Experts come from all parts of the world, recently spanning a spectrum from the author of “Goosebumps”, a behavioral ecologist of wasps, and a historian of white supremacy. (The latter, very good: an interview with Kathleen Belew.)
I’d also recommend: Brian Klaas, Anna Lembke, and anything with Adam Grant
It’s where the hosts’ curiosities really shine through. Not only that, but it’s informative for them as well. Dax boasts that he’s not afraid to ask the stupid questions, show his biases and opinions, or make an ass of himself, and he really has the most freedom to do that with the experts.
As in this interview with Cathy O’Neil, a data scientist on shame, that means things can sometimes get—I wouldn’t say combative—fully energized and examined.
One of Dax’s own products, the “Race to 270” weight loss miniseries, released on the Armchair feed has been criticized that its existence, in fact, shames people who struggle to lose weight.
He didn’t see it that way.
O’Neil, who maybe hadn’t even spent a breath of air on it before booking the interview, did.
The debate is fascinating. It’s stand-your-ground. It’s, ultimately, kind of unresolved. But having the guts to have that conversation, to vet your opinion through an expert, is exactly what I love about it.
No bullshit—Dax is uniquely qualified for this. But how? To use his words, “More than a decade of sobriety, a degree in Anthropology and four years of improv training.” Well, I don’t know about the improv part, but it’s a miracle no late-night show discovered his facility for this kind of work. (He’s probably better in the long form anyway.)
It’s a little weird his face is still the profile of the show, even weirder that it still DBAs as “Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard” on Spotify (where it’s exclusive), since Monica is such a big part of it. But it’s true that his energy and tone is what has set the direction for the show.
He’s the first to acknowledge Monica’s role and is careful not to be too much of a steamroller. Anyway, Barack Obama’s already tried to clarify this stuff for us, and Stacy Abrams showed up wanting to speak to her fellow Georgian first-and-foremost. That’s probably right. — Alex